The Interview
at Aspiration-Ground
with Mr. Radhakrishna Pathak, Associate Editor of a newspaper in Delhi, India
Sri Chinmoy: Your wife is a great devotee of Mother Kali. Does she know that I am also a devotee of Mother Kali? I am still alive because of Mother Kali. When I was a young boy, in my teens, I was a great athlete. I was brought up in the Sri Aurobindo Ashram. There I was decathlon champion for two consecutive years. I stood first overall in ten items. I am bragging! I was also the fastest sprinter for sixteen consecutive years. According to Indian standards I was quite good.
Now I am coming back to Mother Kali. One day we had a 400-metre race. I ran the fastest for the first 300 metres. Then I became tired and exhausted. For the last 100 metres I was about to collapse. Finally, when I completed the 400 metres, I did collapse. My soul left my body while I was lying down at the finish line. Then, while my soul was going up, whom did I see? My Mother Kali! She very forcefully grabbed my soul and put it back inside my body. That is why I am still alive. Otherwise, my soul would have left for good.
Of all the Cosmic Goddesses, Mother Kali is my dearest Mother. She is the Mother of fastest speed, and again she is the Mother of Compassion. All the divine Mothers, the divine Cosmic Goddesses, have Compassion, but Mother Kali is the fastest in everything. We can make mistakes hundreds of times. We can wallow in the pleasures of ignorance for a long, long time. But if her Grace descends, in the twinkling of an eye, all our weaknesses, shortcomings and so-called sins can be nullified, illumined or purified. This is Mother Kali. I am so happy to learn that your wife is a great devotee of Mother Kali, since I also happen to be the same.
Mr. Pathak: I do not know how I am here. It is only through your grace. It really amazes me that I am here.
Sri Chinmoy: You have a very beautiful soul. Your parents have given you a most beautiful, soulful name, Radhakrishna. You embody both Radha and Krishna. Radha was all love, all devotion for Sri Krishna. Her love for Sri Krishna was unparalleled. Again, look at Sri Krishna's love for Radha. The mother aspect in Radha is the compassion aspect. It is like a magnet. It is infinitely easier to go to Lord Krishna through Radha than otherwise. In human life also, it is easier to go to the father via the mother. If you have to go to the father directly, it is difficult. But the mother knows when the father is taking rest or when he is in a humorous mood. She knows when the father is accessible and available. The mother is the bridge between the children and the father, because the children have a more intimate connection with their mother than with their father. The mother represents Mother Earth. The father represents Father Heaven. It is difficult to go straight to Heaven. We need the bridge: the mother.
The mother may be on the fourth floor and the child on the first floor. But as soon as the mother hears the child cry, the mother comes down to see if the child needs milk or something else. If the father hears the child cry, he says, "I am coming," but he takes a little time. The father feels that the child is not going to die in a minute. But the mother's affection is such that she feels something has happened. Nothing has happened; only the child is crying for the mother's milk or something else. But the mother cannot wait for a fleeting second.
The mother's wisdom is in affection. The father's wisdom is in light. The father will tell us about higher philosophy, about God's universality, about God's self-transcendence — everything that we want to know. When we have to deal with something vast, vaster, vastest, the father comes into the picture. But when we have to deal with something intimate, more intimate, most intimate, immediately the mother comes into the picture. When we have any little pain, at that time we shall call the mother, and the mother will come.
The father represents vastness and light. The mother represents intimacy and affection. Both are needed. The Vedas say that inside the finite is the Infinite. Inside the heart is the soul, and the soul represents God. Inside a tiny atom is the cosmos. In the same way, the mother and father are like a beautiful flower and its fragrance. They cannot be separated.
I am so glad that your parents have given you the name Radhakrishna. Radha is the mother, and Sri Krishna is the father. The higher we go, the clearer it becomes to us that Radha and Sri Krishna are inseparably one. It may appear that Radha is only a devotee touching Lord Krishna's feet. Yes, that is true; but Lord Krishna raised her high, higher, highest. So when we see Radha and Sri Krishna together, at that time it is the highest transcendental aspect of God: God the Creator and God the creation together; God in His masculine Form and God in His feminine Form. This is Radhakrishna.
Again, Sri Krishna and Mother Kali are one. I have written many songs and stories saying that Lord Krishna and Mother Kali are one. They are inseparable, although they have different names. If you sincerely worship Lord Krishna, you are bound to get blessings from Mother Kali. Similarly, if you pray to Mother Kali, Lord Krishna will definitely bless you. They are absolutely one.
You are a father; again, you are a great newspaper editor. While you are working in the office, they call you Mr. Pathak. Your children call you "Father" or "Baba" in our Bengali, or something like that. In French it will again be totally different. You are the same person, but each individual is calling you by a different name. Your divine reality is the same whether you are in the office or at home eating with your children. But your divine reality is expressing itself in different ways at different places. Your son will never be happy by calling you Mr. Pathak. He will feel miserable. But your colleagues and acquaintances will get joy in calling you by that name. When you are in a gathering with your friends, again you show another aspect. I get joy by calling you by your first name. Somebody else will get joy by calling you by your surname. Again, your children and your wife will call you in different ways. Everybody knows that you are the same person, but everybody gets joy by calling you a different name. To give each individual joy in a specific way we came into the world. We are all God's creations. I may get more joy by calling to Lord Krishna, whereas you may get more joy by calling to Mother Kali.
I was born in Chittagong. At the age of eleven and a half I went to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram. I stayed there until the age of 32. Then I came here to be of service to God. My philosophy is to love and serve. If we love someone, then we have to serve that person. The mother loves the child; that is why she serves the child. The child loves the mother; that is why the child serves the mother. If we truly love God, then we will have no hesitation to serve Him. In the same way, if we serve someone, definitely we love him. We serve our parents on the strength of our love. This moment we love someone. The next moment we serve the same person.
Do you have any specific question you wish to ask?
Mr. Pathak: Questions always come and go. Please bless me so that I can spread your message.
Sri Chinmoy: Your soul contacted me at least two years ago. Physically you have come to see your Guru now, but spiritually at least two years ago your soul made its connection with me. Now you have come here for the outer recognition, but the inner recognition was made long ago.
Mr. Pathak: For years I didn't believe in a Guru.
Sri Chinmoy: Why do you have to believe in a Guru, as long as you believe in yourself? If you have faith in yourself, that means you have faith in something high, divine, pure and immortal. You do not have to believe in a Guru as long as you believe in yourself.
Mr. Pathak: But one cannot know oneself without a Guru.
Sri Chinmoy: What does the Guru do? The function of a Guru is very simple. He tells you, "Look, you do not know what you have inside you. Inside you is a safe. Inside the safe you have the most beautiful, most expensive diamond, but you have misplaced the key. My job is to help you search for the key. I will search for the key and find it. Then I shall give you the key and you will open the safe. As soon as it is open, you will see the diamond inside you. This is your divinity."
The Guru's role is to show you the way. You have lost your own divinity, but the Guru comes to bring you back to your own divinity. The divinity is already there. The Guru does not give you the divinity; God has given you the divinity. But the Guru is the messenger boy. The Guru shows you your divinity.
The Guru is the bridge between man and God. You need a bridge to go from one place to another. When Sri Rama had to go to Lanka to fight against Ravana, he needed a bridge to his destination. In our case we need a bridge to go to the Golden Shore. The Guru tells us that the Highest is the only Guru. The real Guru is God. The real Guru is your Father and my Father. But since you are younger than I in the spiritual life, I tell you, "Come with me. I will show you where our Father is." The eldest son of the family knows more about the father than the youngest son.
You are my spiritual brother, just as others are my spiritual brothers and sisters. The real Guru is the Absolute Lord Supreme. I have already realised Him. You also have to realise Him. Now the time has come for me to help mankind to go to the highest Absolute Lord Supreme, because I know I have already realised Him. Not only in this incarnation, but in previous incarnations also I have realised Him. In this incarnation, God out of His infinite Bounty wants me to manifest Him. In my previous incarnations, I spent time in the Himalayan caves, near the Nepalese border. How many austerities I practised inside the Himalayan caves! In this incarnation God wants me to be in the ultramodern country, America.
Everything is God's creation. If He wants me to be in a cave, I will be in a cave. If He wants me to be in a palace, I will be in a palace. That is called surrender. Again, if He wants me to be in India, I will be in India. It was He who brought me to America because He wanted me to serve mankind here in America. Otherwise, how many countries and how many people there are that could have taken my service! Had I remained in India, in a village or somewhere else, God would not have given me that opportunity to be of service. Now people from so many countries, even the former Soviet Union, are all coming here. Here in America God wanted me to act like a tree. A tree has so many branches, so many flowers, so many fruits and countless leaves. He chose America for me so that I could be of greatest service to humanity.
Again, if God asks me to go back to India, I will go happily. At the Sri Aurobindo Ashram I was the secretary of Nolini Kanta Gupta. He was Sri Aurobindo's main secretary. I was quite happy there. I was an athlete, and I wrote considerably. In those days they did not give degrees in the Sri Aurobindo Ashram, but I studied a lot. I could have remained in India; again, I can return to India. Whatever God wants me to do, I shall do it happily. If He asks me to sit down, I shall sit down. If He wants me to run, I shall run. He asked me to come and be in America in the hustle and bustle of life. When I came to America, America was like a lion roaring! Pondicherry was such a mild village. It was simplicity incarnate. From simplicity I had to come into diversity, because God wanted me here, and He is expressing Himself in and through me here. In exactly the same way He wants to express Himself in and through you and through everybody.
There are various ways to work to spread God's Light, and you are already doing it. So often you are publishing spiritual things, and many, many people have come to learn about me from your newspaper. I understand it is your strongest desire to have a few fellow disciples or seekers in India. If you can inspire a few seekers in Delhi to follow our philosophy, that will again be of tremendous service. From one we become many. You see that so many people have come to our path from Germany. From one it became many. One seeker inspired some people, and they in turn inspired others. When one seed germinates, it becomes a plant, and then it becomes a huge banyan tree with thousands of leaves.
Swami Vivekananda's philosophy was accepted in the very beginning by one disciple, a school teacher from South India. He was the one who started spreading Swami Vivekananda's light. Always the seed is one. Then eventually it becomes a tree and it produces countless seeds. One seed enters the ground, and when it grows into a tree, it produces so many seeds, so many flowers. Then many travellers and pilgrims come and enjoy the beauty and fragrance of the flowers. So if you are inspired, you can also inspire others.
When a child smiles at his father and mother the parents feel that they have got the whole world. The child does not have money. The child does not have wisdom. The child has only a smile. One smile from a child conquers our heart. Others can give us wisdom and so many other things, but we are not satisfied. But just a little smile from a child gives us such joy and such satisfaction.
In exactly the same way, when Lord Krishna smiles at us or Radha smiles at us, we get the whole world. Lord Krishna does not have to give a seeker ten houses or ten cars. When Lord Krishna smiles at a seeker, the seeker gets the whole world. What is God-realisation? Only a smile and satisfaction. If we see that God is satisfied with us, God is smiling at us, that means we have got the whole world. But to get that Smile from God, we have to prepare ourselves. We have to pray; we have to meditate; we have to give Him everything that we have and everything that we are.
Our difficulty is that when we go to God, we feel that we have to be pure, we have to be sincere. God says, "All right, become pure, become sincere. But if you are still impure, where will you go? If you are still insincere, where will you go? You have to come to Me with your purity and with your impurity, with your sincerity and your insincerity."
A child goes out of the house and he plays on the ground, in sand, mud and clay. Then he goes to the right person: his mother. What does his mother do? His mother cleans him. Before the child comes to his mother, does he first enter into a pond or a swimming pool to clean himself? No, he comes to his mother full of mud, clay and sand. He knows that his mother will say, "He is my child," and that she will wash him and show him all her affection.
In exactly the same way, we have to go to God with all our imperfections. If we say, "No, first I have to conquer my impurity, I have to conquer my jealousy and insecurity," then we shall have to wait for millions of years more. We say, "God, you know my heart. I am insincere, I am impure, I am jealous. You can just kick me away." But, God will say, "You come to Me. The Hour has struck. It is time for you to run towards me."
When Lord Krishna used to play on the flute at odd hours, did Radha care for anything else? She had her own husband, but she ran to Lord Krishna because the call had come. When Lord Krishna played on the flute at any hour, Radha and the gopis all used to run, because the Hour had struck. They gave up everything. At that time they were not thinking, "O my God, we are not pure." They used to run to get Lord Krishna's affection, love and blessings.
In our case, the Hour has struck. When the Hour strikes, at that time we shall not look around or see if we are properly dressed. God is not asking us for our appearance. God is asking us for our heart. The child's love for his mother and father compels him to run towards his parents. In exactly the same way we have to run towards God, no matter what we are, no matter where we are. We have to run towards God because the Hour has struck. God says, "You come with your wife, with your children and with your larger family. Your larger family is your friends, your dear ones and acquaintances."
Once upon a time I did not know my spiritual children. Now they have become part and parcel of my life. Like a human father, how many times I scold them and insult them! But their love is so strong that they know how much I love them. In exactly the same way, parents scold their children, but the children do know how much love the parents have for them. Here it is one family, one family — a oneness-home.
When you go back to Delhi, you can spread your Guru's light by talking to people. More than that, they will see something totally different in you. As soon as your friends and colleagues look at you, they will see something different in your eyes, in your face. It is something better, something higher, something purer, something more divine. Now you have come to your Master's place, and from here you will carry the inner beauty, inner fragrance, inner light and inner delight. After being here for two weeks you will go back. Your wife has known you for so many years. Now she is bound to see and feel in you something spiritual, divine and most illumining. She will say, "My God, what has happened to my husband?" How much progress she is bound to see in your human eyes, because she herself loves Mother Kali.
Your very presence will be able to inspire your friends, colleagues and dear ones. The things that you are now receiving from your Guru or from your own aspiration will come to the fore, and you will be able to manifest them. As you sow, so you reap. Here you have sown divinity; there your divinity will come to the fore.
Mr. Pathak: Fear sometimes does not allow me to let myself go. It holds me back.
Sri Chinmoy: Fear of what? When your children were two years old, you were so tall and stout. Were they afraid of you? No, because they knew that you were their father. Your children were very small, but they knew you in your affection aspect, and they were not afraid of you. It is like the ocean. The drop is not afraid of the ocean because it knows its oneness with the ocean. A little child is not afraid of his father because he knows that person is his own father. Why should he be afraid of his own father's love?
So, what are you afraid of? What makes you fearful? Jumping into the unknown?
Mr. Pathak: Uncertainty.
Sri Chinmoy: At night you go to sleep, and then you get up early in the morning at five o'clock or six o'clock. If you think of the night as such, if you look into the night sky, it is something unknown. Again, if you look at the sky with your heart, you are not afraid of it because you have become the sky itself. The drop of water has established its identity with the vast ocean, so the drop is not afraid of the ocean. A child has established his oneness with his father. The father is so tall and stout, and he is an important person, an editor. But the child does not care what the father's title is. He knows that his father is all love. Your child does not care what you are in the outer world. He cares only for your affection, for your compassion, for your love.
We are afraid precisely because we do not establish our oneness with the vastness. The unknown does not remain unknown; the uncertain does not remain uncertain. Before the dawn breaks, before the sunrise, night is unknown. But when we see the sunrise, the unknown becomes known. The spiritual life is also like that. We aspire for the Highest, but then there is uncertainty. Not only in the spiritual life, but in ordinary life at every moment, before we arrive at our goal, it is all uncertain. I have a goal, but I do not know what will happen even if I arrive at the goal. Will I see a most beautiful garden, or something totally different?
We have to know what will happen from within, or we have to believe in somebody who also experienced the same problem at the beginning of his spiritual journey. People who have realised God, like Lord Krishna, Lord Buddha, Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Aurobindo and others, also had the same problem. Then they saw that the unknown, the unknowable, can be knowable. The unknown can easily be known. In the alphabet, after A comes B, and then C and D. You teach your child A, and at that time B is unknown to him. You know that B is right after A. Once I was talking to an American child only two years old. I was telling him that after A comes B and then C. He thought I was a magician! Where did B and C come from? For him, they were coming from Heaven or somewhere else. So, for adults A, B, C and D are known, but for a little child they are unknown.
In the same way, when you have fear of the unknown, you have to feel that it does exist, and many people have seen it. The place that you are unaware of today has been visited by many people. It is not something dangerous; it is not something destructive. No, no, no! We can conquer uncertainty or fear of the unknown by having faith in someone else who has gone there.
In a big palace there are many, many rooms. When you approach the palace you see that it is all darkness, because you do not know there is a light switch inside. But an electrician will come and tell you, "Here is the switch — just turn it on." Then everything is all right. Before you turn on the light, you are so afraid because the palace is all darkness. In the same way, the Master comes and turns on the switch. Then you see the unknown is all illumined. But if you go there alone and you do not know where the light is, then naturally you will be afraid.
For everything in life, we need someone to turn on the switch. As I told you half an hour ago, inside you is the treasure, but somebody has to come and show it to you. If you take an inner guide to illumine you, he will do the needful. Then there cannot be an iota of uncertainty in your life. Everything becomes absolutely positive. We get confidence when we see that somebody else has already gone through what we are experiencing. Whoever is my teacher also had that same problem in the beginning, when he was still a student. Now he has become my teacher. His job is to teach me; it is up to me to have faith in him or not.
My Guru is now the Absolute Supreme, but previously I had a human Guru. He realised God, but before that he also had uncertainty and so many other difficulties. Similarly, Swami Vivekananda had so much uncertainty. He did not know what was going to happen in his life. Before he came to America, he was so afraid. He wondered what would happen! But he came here and conquered the heart of America only by saying, "Brothers and Sisters, Sisters and Brothers." Then he was able to spread Sri Ramakrishna's light. Everybody is uncertain in the beginning.
Again, whoever has faith in God goes through a dark tunnel at some point. When you go to Manhattan from Queens, you pass through a tunnel. When you enter the tunnel for the first time, you may say, "O my God, where are we going? It is all darkness. The cars will collide!" Then in a few minutes you come out of the tunnel and enter into Manhattan, as many people have already done. So, when you go through the tunnel you are afraid and uncertain, but you have to go through it. In the spiritual life also, we have to have faith, in the inmost recesses of our heart, that at the end of the tunnel there is light.
Published in Sri Chinmoy Answers, part 11